Cannabis Beverage Certification, Sober Founders and the Hemp Beverage Revolution | Leigh Gall

Leigh Gall is the co-founder of Cannabis Beverage Certification and host of The Enlightened Buzz on YouTube, the leading education channel for THC beverages. She came up at Boston Beer, spent years in national accounts and distributor training, got sober, and then helped build the first professional certification program for hemp infusion in the beverage industry. This is her story.

In this episode, Leigh and Nate break down why education is the single biggest gap in the hemp beverage category right now, what happens when an untrained retail rep sends a consumer home with the wrong product, and why the cannabis beverage certification model mirrors what Cicerone and Sommelier programs did for craft beer and wine. They also get into the honest conversation most people in this industry avoid: what it means to be a sober founder in the adult beverage world, why both of them left alcohol behind after careers built inside it, and what that actually looks like on the sales floor, at conferences and in distributor meetings.

Leigh shares the story behind distributor partners Tryon, Badger Wholesalers and Opici Wine Group certifying entire sales forces, why Climbing Kites built education into their onboarding from day one and what the "Dylan on Aisle 7" framework means for the long-term trajectory of the functional drinks market.

They also cover the three-tier distribution argument for HB2309 in Pennsylvania, why the same system that governs beer can and should govern hemp beverages and what drink entrepreneurship looks like when you are building a category that did not exist three years ago.

Topics covered:

• Cannabis beverage certification and the Cicerone comparison
• Hemp infusion education for distributors and retailers
• Why alcohol sales are declining across beer, wine and spirits
• GLP-1 drugs, the Bud Light effect and portfolio diversification
• Sober founders in the adult beverage pairing space
• Building a two-hour course that pays for itself in the first week
• Tryon Distributing, Badger Wholesalers and Opici Wine Group as case studies
• Visionary entrepreneurship and being comfortable being misunderstood
• HB2309, the three-tier system and the regulation argument for hemp
• Functional drinks trends and the consumer education gap

Connect with Leigh

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/leighgall

Cannabis Beverage Certification: cannabevcertification.com 

The Enlightened Buzz on YouTube: youtube.com/@enlightenedbuzz 

Host: Nate Fochtman | The FreeMind Group 

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Pennsylvania breweries, distributors and retailers: get behind House Bill 2309. Learn more at iwantmythc.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This is the rawest podcast you're ever going to be on.

SPEAKER_02 0:03

Yeah. Okay. I'm down. Um hi, my name's Lee Gall. I am co-founder of the Cannabis Beverage Certification and also host of YouTube channel The Enlightened Buzz that does education on THC beverages.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Excellent. And and I bring a lot of strangers on here, and I gotta let everybody know in full context, we are pretty much strangers, but we have spent a couple hours talking and getting to know each other. So I want to give everybody full context. This isn't a completely blind episode like I do sometimes. So I intentionally don't do any uh research on any of my guests ahead of time. So it's one of those things where they get to the audience gets to watch me learn about them in in real time. So uh one of the let's talk about give me a cloud level flyover on both things and then like on the on the education business that you have and then on the podcast, and then I'll dive deeper into each one.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Yeah, well, it it's a great question because they they emerged at the same time. And it's because I I had come into THC Beverages in 2023. My career was from beer. So I'd started at the Boston Beer Company, was part of the Kraft Beer Revolution, and had spent my time there, and then in 2023 came into THC Beverages and was immediately fascinated and then scared shitless because I live in Texas and I knew and still currently know the level of education that the people that live here have on cannabis. And I was fearful for these individuals going out and accidentally picking up a product that they didn't know how to consume and have a really bad experience. In that same conversation, I was also concerned for distributors and retailers doing a poor job of educating consumers. And at the Boston Beer Company, we were very well educated and we used that as a resource to grow the brand. And so immediately it was around October 2023, I felt this call to get education out into the world. And so simultaneously went to my co-founder and said, we must create a course on these beverages to help educate retailers, suppliers, and distributors. And then I took to YouTube because I didn't have time to grow an Instagram. Not that YouTube is any easier, but I just felt like that was the biggest possible PA, PSA platform I could find. And I just started putting videos on the internet because if people were going to look for them, then I would hopefully pop up. And um, it was a very slow burn. But then around spring of 2025, that channel started to get activity because that is really when I think the word began to spread. And I mean, you know, we're still, I don't even know if we're still in the first inning of this whole thing, but um at least it at least you know, there's education that exists for for people that are are new to this category.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

And and that, and the thing is, I think I respect what you do, and I really I've been following you like on since we met. And it's one of those things where there's a and this isn't some ego statement, so I want the audience to know this, but what we're trying to do, what you're doing with your show, what I'm doing with this show is we're I hate the word elevate, but I don't know how else to say it, is we're trying to take it out of the stoner mentality and show these things as an adult beverage. And I think that there's not enough people doing what you and I are doing for the industry as a whole to accelerate the way it does. So I really I respect everything you're doing, and I want everybody to check out what you're doing on socials and and on YouTube and everything like that, because that's where the real stories are. We can talk about data points and a billion-dollar industry and all that stuff, but really at the end of the day, I I want to know, and it seems like your audience and my audience wants to know who are the who are the American entrepreneurs that are out here giving, staying up all night trying to figure things out. I want to know who's sweating and crying in the middle of the night. I want to know who's on the verge of a divorce and trying to fight for their marriage and their business. I want like these are the people and these are the stories that need to be out there because that's what's real. Like a billion-dollar industry is real only if there's a foundation support of real people that have a passion and a purpose behind what they're doing.

SPEAKER_02 4:22

Yeah, I love that you said that. And honestly, you reminded me in part of why I did start the YouTube channel in particular, because I am a 40-something-year-old mom of two boys, and I'm married to a firefighter in a very conservative county in the middle of, you know, outside of Dallas, Texas. So I thought if I could put my face out there as a mom, as a as a wife, you know, and of a first responder, then who better to like help try to normalize this and and show other people like, hey, this isn't bad. This doesn't have to be a stigma. And when I, you know, in those early days when I was working with brands, I was constantly inviting people, like friends and family, into my home to try the product so that they felt like they had a safe place and they could ask questions. Because when the stigma is lowered and people feel comfortable, comfortable being able to talk about it, that's when the real education and real growth happens. And so I just really started flying the flag because if people could associate me with this, then that was a sign of progress towards the old mentality into the new.

SPEAKER_00 6:03

Majority of these brands are produced by breweries. Yeah. Like there are some co-packing facility scenarios, but a majority of them are brewery focused, and breweries rely on that revenue now.

SPEAKER_02 6:14

Yeah, as do distributors, as do you know retailers. This has become a supplemental source of revenue because, you know, and I'm I'm sure you've talked about it in other episodes, but alcohol sales have declined, and it's not for the obvious reasons, it's it's for multiple reasons. And there's a book called Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell, which I think is the is the case study for what we are seeing. And it's essentially for those of you that haven't read it, it's where he talks about how Steve Jobs and Bill Gates became who they were because of the time they were born and the resources they had. And the most the most prestigious NHL hockey players were all born in January and February. And it's all these things, all the stars have to align. And in this case, I think we have to consider the fact that yes, younger generations aren't drinking as much alcohol and are more familiar with cannabis, but COVID has has changed the world and kept more people at home. So there's less going out. GLP1 drugs are changing the effects of how alcohol feels. And so drinking is down among those users. And then you had the Bud Light incident where you know you had just a big network of distributors across America learn that they had to diversify a portfolio and not go all in on a leading brand. And guess what came knocking at their door in you know, post Bud Light crisis was a handful of THC beverages. And so they had this beautiful network that helped catapult the success. So it's it's not just one thing, it's multiple things. And we're gonna look back and we're gonna know what we can, you know, equate all of this to. And it's saving a lot of businesses as a supplemental revenue.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

It's I'm sure you heard this in the in the beer world, but I want to I want more people in the hemp and functional space that are new to the space, new to beverages and the adult beverage space to think of everything this way. Everybody's got an extra 20 bucks at the end of the at the end of Thursday, by the time they pay their bills on Friday, they got$20. And build your brand to be worth their$20.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Because what else is going to compete with it? Well, they might have a gambling, it might be online gambling and putting their bets in, they might be doing this, they might be doing that. And that's the other thing that we don't think about is it's sometimes it's not even the beverage itself, it's the financial capacity of the person. And, you know, and that's or it might be sobriety, like myself, and I believe you are too, right? Yeah. So it's like it's one of those things as well, where it's like, you know, we've been in the industry, we've we've drank more beers than most people have in their lives, and we drank them professionally, and we got paid to do it. Now we don't drink any beer. And it's one of those things where that's a weird juxtaposition to be in in life. But at the same time, back to that thing too, where you're talking about the the you know, the delta is where I live. Like this, I started this business 17 years ago called FreeMind because I wanted to live in the Delta. I didn't want to be on the X and the Y axis at all. I want to live in the Delta, and the business has evolved every few years because of that. And everybody's always like, you keep changing your strategy. I'm like, I don't change my strategy, follow the consumer. Yeah. I say that's a lot.

SPEAKER_02 9:22

Well, and honestly, I don't even know if I would say you're changing your strategy as much as you are aligning with a vision. Like you're describing a visionary, and visionaries don't live in the present, they move, they create it. And what you're doing is you're out in front of that and you're creating it. And of course, those people don't understand because they're in the present. And so, and and I put myself in that category because when I created these platforms for education, people were like, What the hell are you doing? Why are you doing this? And for me, I just felt like there's no other choice. This in my mind, these things needed to exist yesterday. And so when I saw they didn't, I had to go create them. And now here we are, 2026, and people go, Oh, I get it now. And so when you have to kind of be that rebel and be comfortable being misunderstood, because you are creating the path, you're the pathfinder, you know, and you're you're creating that for them. And so no strategy will ever make sense because it's always one that's been done by somebody else.

SPEAKER_00 10:34

It's the the the sticking thing of what you just said was being comfortable being misunderstood. And I think it wasn't until I got sober for me personally where I was able to do that. And it's a very real new feeling for me to like be like, it's okay if we don't if we don't align. And not like before where I used to be like, oh fuck him, blah, blah, blah. It's like, no, it's like it's okay. Like, I'm totally comfortable. Like, if somebody, if we don't rub each other the right way during discovery meetings, at the end of it, I'm like, I don't know if this is gonna work. And people will be like, we haven't even talked about pricing. I'm like, I don't think I have to get there.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

Yeah, yeah, that's that's great. I mean, that's baller of you because other people would just quietly And I did in the past, yeah. Yeah, quietly feel the disagreement and then just never reply to the email, which is awkward. But I too am in that kind of place in my life where I look back on my life and see where I was always on this cusp. And I kind of sacrificed that uniqueness and to fit back in. And now I'm finally at a place where I'm wearing it as a badge. And like, no, I see I I have this ability to see where where there are needs in certain areas, not a lot, not all of them. But if I see that, then I need to act for the betterment of other people so this can exist and and feel comfortable knowing that I'm going to be misunderstood in the process, and I have to patiently wait for people to catch up to me. Like it's awkward, but you just it it's just part of it.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

It's it's funny. I travel a lot around the Mid Atlantic and Pennsylvania and other areas, and like I do like 5,000 miles a month, is what it is on the past year and a half. So it's it's and when I get to these breweries and stuff like that, sometimes especially, like they'll be like, they may have known me from the past, and then they're like, they'll expect me to like stay to drink or whatever else. And I'm like, I'm like, hey, I'll stay and we'll hang out and stuff like that, but I'm not drinking. And then all of a sudden they get cold, and then they're like, Well, I don't want you to put me on your show if you're sober, like that's these disingenuous. And I always like explain to them, I'm like, I came back like in my sobriety, I left and I got sober, and then I came back. Why did I come back? Because I give a shit about every person, and I try to explain to them, and now they now they're starting to see it where it's like, I don't talk ill of alcohol, I talk ill of how alcohol and I got along. We didn't get along very well in my personal life, and that it had nothing to do with the industry. And I and now what they're seeing is they're like, this guy doesn't even drink, and he's our biggest champion. Yeah, and that's a hard thing for people to process in the alcohol industry. We're like, this guy doesn't hasn't put a drop in his mouth of our product, but he sells he sells it and he's he's like an ambassador for us. And I think that that's that's a new feeling for a lot of breweries where it used to be like you gotta drink the Kool-Aid in order to do this. And you know, like it's like wearing Boston beer shirts when you're out and only drink Boston beer in your head. You know, I see that works. I had to like pay attention to which brand I was representing when I was in the wholesale world. I was like, which beer am I supposed to buy and I lose it? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Yeah, you'd go, you would take a distributor rep out to lunch and immediately immediately start sizing up the tap handles. You're like, what am I allowed to drink today? Because I have to drink at lunch. And I'm I'm quickly, you know, identifying what is permissible and what is not. You're right. Like drinking was non-stop. And it was it was part of what we what we were also providing others that that acceptance. Yes, I just ordered my beer at lunch so that you have the hall pass so that you can do it too. We weren't just drinking, I think often it wasn't just that we were drinking for the company, but we were drinking as this human hall pass in a lot of occasions. And it's funny because, you know, for me, in in the time that I've been alcohol-free, which you know is is probab not as long as you, but it's something that I'm I'm very excited and committed to. I think I'm actually identifying and aligning more with who Lee was on alcohol on a 24-hour basis. It's no longer isolated to the point of inebriation. I feel like I'm accessing her throughout the day because I'm not filtering what I say and I'm being my authentic self. And before I would wear this mask all day long. And then the alcohol was the release, was the the feeling of authenticity. And now I've dropped all of it and I'm just her throughout the day. And so people that are hanging out with me shouldn't want me to have a drink in my hand because they're experiencing the real thing now, and I'm probably a lot funnier, and I'm gonna remember it, and I'm gonna, it's it's gonna be a better experience. And and you can still drink. I'm not offended or anything, but you're getting a better quality person across the table, regardless.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

I was at the craft brewers conference last week in uh Philadelphia, and it was uh running into people I hadn't seen since prior to all this and everything like that. I think I'll move off with a sobriety for a second, but you'll appreciate this is like Kelly, uh my girlfriend and I her comment a couple times was like about my skin. Because she's never she's never known me. I've known her since we were seven. We reconnected after life and divorces and all this stuff. So we knew each other our whole lives, but she never knew me in my alcohols. And we that was a part where we like disappeared and everything like that. And so now she's only seen she's never she's never known me to ever drink a alcohol in experience. What I'm trying to say is it was the mornings of the show of the conference, and that was where I was like, I did pick on everybody that drank because I was like 6 a.m. I'm there, I'm doing my regular routine and I'm working the floor, I'm doing this, and guys are just dredging their bugs in, and they're just like hating 9 a.m. and 10 a.m. and like nodding off in the lectures and stuff. I'm looking around being like, not this.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Yeah. Well, and it it's funny because as you talk about being at CBC, it they talk about all these people that you've run into, and to their defense, you still have the look, like you're still the dude with the beard. And that is, I mean, that is craft beer guy. Like you you have the whole persona, and so you so I could see how they're like being tricked because, like, wait, what you still you're you still carry the whole look, and you're like, but then you come in, you know, chipper at 6 a.m. with spirit, you know, spirit fingers. They're like, whoa, what's going on?

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Exactly. So let's go, let's go back to I want to talk about your story leading up to this, though, too. And I want to like let's go back in the way back machine, and then we'll get we'll bring it back up to the education here. So let's do like 10 minutes or so of your life in Boston Beer. Was this was entrepreneurship ever a bug in your ear, or did it what what's the year, the environment, the situation, like the emotions, and when you are like, I'm gonna make the jump and and invest in myself.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Wow. Well, you're you're about to definitely hear it. Cause then you're also bringing in this other side of me, um, that's not just THC related. It's I also do speaking and coaching on kind of mindset stuff, and I can get into that.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Uh, but go as deep as you want.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

Yeah, yeah. I have had the entrepreneurial bug since I was a little girl. Like, I mean, I remember drawing pictures and painting pictures, and when my relatives would come over or friends, and we're talking, I'm like, I don't know, three, four, five years old. They would come to the house and I would try to sell them my pictures. And then in elementary, I swear to God, like I have a business for every stage of my life. In elementary school, I was selling friendship bracelets, middle school, I was selling candy. Um, high school was yeah, I was I those uh splashers, I would get a big bucket of splashers at Sam's Club. That was, and I got called to the principal's office. I got like, I got in trouble.

SPEAKER_00 18:31

Um I didn't tell my mom when she was going to Sam's Club, I would just let her buy it. She just thought I was consuming a lot for a couple weeks.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

Yeah, yeah. Like, man, he's really going through this candy. Um college, I was selling uh, you know, just hand painted hand, I mean, I was selling stuff and then I had my own businesses. I stayed home for a little bit. It was and I started businesses. So the irony though is that I've always had this entrepreneurial thread in me. But because of just how I was raised in society and some of my own personal issues, I felt like I had to follow these rules. And I just was like, well, this is what you do. You get the degree, and then you go get the job, and then you and then you get the promotion, and then you change jobs and you get another promotion. And I felt like I had to live by this kind of rule book and guide and kind of what we were saying earlier, fit into other people's standards and expectations and look normal and not be the visionary and not be the odd man out. And so I I stayed complacent and I was sick, but the other thing that got really tricky is I was always very successful. And and so it was like, why would I be complaining here? Because I at Boston Beer, I I won rookie of the year, and then I got to step a promotion step and went international. I mean, it was it was success. What I didn't realize, and this is blending in my other world, is that that success was actually a a symptom of my own kind of like childhood trauma that I didn't know. But I was kind of struggling inside with these feelings, and I would just look around and be like, is that does everybody else feel like this? Am I the only one? Everybody makes this look so easy. And I was struggling. And but as part of that, I now see a lot of my success and a lot of my struggle were the same thing because I was overachieving, I was overcompensating, I was people pleasing, I was adhering to, I would do whatever. I would do whatever it took to make them happy. And that equals that equals promotions, but it also was at the sake of my myself. And I was burning out and I was having anxiety and depression that I didn't realize were anxiety and depression. And then finally I had um I had a a stint in a role with with an employer that got really nasty and it got really bad. And I look back and that was that was it was a really, really bad experience. And I oh man, I just have very little respect for for for how things went and how how leadership acted. So I left and then I went into another organization and continued to achieve and perform and be, you know, do all the things for everybody there. And then the the culture started to take a shift there as well. And then when I looked and said, wow, this is happening for a second time, this is I I need I need to do some some investigation on myself and figure out what's going on, but then also realize that this is not the environment for me, and it was in that that approach. Approach of the second time that I said, I'm done. And I've got to, I've got to go do this for myself because this other thing is not working. And that was the first time I felt like I was finally breaking the rules. And then you realize there are no rules. And everybody just gets put into a system and you feel like you're supposed to do the thing. And then suddenly, like, you know, you the curtains get pulled back and you go, Oh my gosh, I could have been doing this all along. This is so I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

I don't know if you if you Oh, we're exactly the same. We're exactly the same. I got a scholarship, worked my ass off in elementary school and middle school. I got a scholarship to a boarding school. I come from a blue-collar family. I was like one of the first people in my family to go to college. And then when I go to college, my senior year is 2008. So I go, I go, I work my ass off. My parents take out loans to finish out the difference of the scholarship for high school. Then I take out loans for college. I'm 100,000 plus in debt. And then this the market crashes and there's no jobs. And what did I do? I started FreeMind LLC, the business that is operating today. So like I literally started it the same year I graduated college because I I have I was already, I was already the company I'd worked for most of my college career was promising me a full-time job. And then as soon as it and I was like busting my ass, like while going to school full-time, I was doing any and everything that they ever wanted me to do because I was like, this is the future. I could see myself retiring here. I don't come from anything. This is nice, it's flashy, people wear suits, I'm good. And then all of a sudden, I graduate, and the response I get is if I could hire a thousand mates, I would, but I can't right now. And I was like, man, I was like, that's the greatest compliment and the greatest letdown. And the most and and I liked, I liked the respect, I respected the statement, but it's what was the problem back then, and it's what is the problem in all of this is with these corporations and these larger companies, the larger you get, they actually don't want a lot of creative people that are gonna question them. And the second you you look like you have that entrepreneurial spirit, and especially like uh a couple years ago, I had the business when I was going through and getting sober. I I couldn't do certain things because of different things that were going on in my life. And I went and got a full-time job and did this on the side. I think I lasted four months in that job where I put together this proposal that made so much sense, and it was something the company was not thinking about. And instead of like doing the old like, we'll consider it and we'll move on, they laughed. And I was like, and I said to them right in the middle of the meeting, I was like, I want you guys to know, uh, I your laughter doesn't offend me. And in actuality, you can give me a proper counter to this by 5 p.m. or I'm gonna send you my resignation effective immediately at 5.02. And then they laughed again. And I was like, take care, I'll see you at five o'clock. And I hopped off the Google Meet and 59, didn't get a counter offer, didn't get a response. 5.02. I sent I sent my thing and I was like, it was just two sentences. I said, effective immediately per our conversation earlier today at 11.02. See you, like I'm out. And I said, do not call me, do not email me, send me everything you need in the final. Here's my mailing address, and um, that's it. I said, You're not getting my notes, you're not getting anything. And I said, I don't want to hear from you. And at the bottom, I was like, and just so you know, because this is full of different people that have egos, in the bottom of the thing, it's like just so you know, this didn't hurt me. You actually just helped me. Yeah, but you helped me see that I don't want to give myself to you anymore.

SPEAKER_02 25:33

Yeah. Well, I had I just finished a book and I can't recall which one because I it I read a lot of books or I listen to a lot of books. Let's be very clear. I'm a big fan of audio books. And they in in this book it said how how organizations do historically fear creativity because and it but it goes back to that visionary piece because uh as a as a unit, they need what's they need to to know what's familiar and what they're used to, and and creativity looks like danger. But it's only when you do the thing and then you succeed that everybody is like, oh yeah, and then they jump on the bandwagon.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

Every system starts with creativity, they don't see that.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Yeah, but it really does elicit like a fear response in a lot of people and organizations specifically because it's the unfamiliar, it's the unknown. And it so it, yeah, it it it goes back to that have to be comfortable feeling misunderstood piece because that's what it is. And individuals that work in organizations tend to like you know, the the comfort, the stability and knowing, and are less prone to adversity and it and change. I mean, and I I don't want to blanket that and say everybody that's in corporate America doesn't like change, but it's as a as a unit that has to move together, there has to be synchronization. And so when there's an outlier within that, that becomes a threat. If you mean if you think about it, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:10

It is, and it's one of those things that like I don't speak ill of like people that like nine to five jobs. I had a one of my best friends gave me a call one time after one of my podcast episodes, and I kind of went on a little bit of a rant, and I was downing not like nine to five jobs and corporate life and all that. And he gave me a call and we talked it out. And we're former rugby teammates, so the way rugby guys talk is a lot different than a lot of other people talk. So he called to call me out and put me on the floor, and we had a good conversation, and it was effective because that's how rugby guys talk to each other, very similar to my my wrestling old wrestling guys. It's a special sport in that sense. But what I want to talk about is in that sense, was he showed me and told me about his own life in corporate and how much it means to him and how much the security means to him that bleeds out to every part of his life, and how not having that paycheck every Thursday and not knowing where to go every day, and not like that would affect his marriage, it would affect his fatherhood, it would affect so many things that he wouldn't function positively and productively in society. And when he said that, it changed everything for me. And I really I I honor my conversations with him and and and stuff like that, but especially that one, because it was very vulnerable of him to call me to not defend himself and like attack me in the process. It was to explain why he feels the way he feels, and it gave me a whole new light on it. And then I understood that. And in reverse, I was like, okay, I'm gonna respect that. So in reverse, everybody needs to expect the fact respect the fact that Monday through Friday, you put me in a cubicle or you give me the same task to do from a from a five days in a row, I will quit that job in a week or two. And it and because of the same exact reason, because I'm gonna come home angry every day, I'm gonna come home. It's gonna do the same thing in reverse to me.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

Right. Yeah, and we need we need everybody for the world to go round, right? And we and unfortunately, like that's great that you guys had that conversation and he was vulnerable and you guys saw each other's sides because so often people want everybody to conform to their vision and their box. But the reality is the more we can accept people for who they are and what they need and what they offer, the the more functional we can be as a humanity because we do need those people that need that that safety and that conformity and that's in the the schedule in the safe place. But we also need the visionaries out on the front lines initiating change. And it's it, yeah, it's just it's not there, no one side fits all by any means. It's just making sure you go to where you feel most aligned.

SPEAKER_00 29:46

Absolutely. So coming back and uh coming back to the education and currently what you guys are doing for a lot of this in the uh audience here is like 60% founders and owners and uh senior leaders in the food and beverage industry. Give give everybody kind of a comparison. Is it easy? Is it not easy? Is it too simplified to compare it to a similar thing of a similar track of like Cicero and Somalier 4 hemp beverages? Or kind of dive into like a comparison for everybody to understand what it is that you guys do on a day-to-day basis as far as the education you guys are doing.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

Yeah, no, you you hit the nail on the head. Done. Question answered. No, um, yeah. Moving on. Uh so the my co-founder, her name is is I know her as Megan Anderson. And fun fact, we met at at Boston Beer. And um I helped, I was part of her ride-along experience when she came to interview, and I helped train her, and I taught her her very first weight staff education at a Hooters in somewhere in Dallas, Texas. And so that we've always stayed in touch. But what's cool though about the story is uh we were both at Boston Beer, we we saw the value of education, and then we were in the DFW Metroplex, and then our our our paths differed at that point. And she went into training and moved to Boston and helped run training for North America to get distributors across the United States Cicero certified. Simultaneously, I was in national accounts off-premise. So I was covered Texas, Louisiana. I was calling on H E B and Kroger and Costco and all there were there was one of me, and there's probably seven now, just to give you some perspective.

SPEAKER_00 31:31

Yeah, back then we had a lot more work than the people do today. They very much have spread it out.

SPEAKER_02 31:35

Yeah, all classes of trade, off-premise, Texas, Louisiana. It was a lot, but it was fun. And and I saw the value of education from a retail perspective. And I remember standing in front of a room full of Safeway employees teaching them about Hollertown Middlefruit hops and Turo malt. And um, and so then we stayed in touch over the years, and she went alcohol free and was still in hops and brewing and realized that there was no education on alcohol-free products. And that's when she founded Aficionados, and it was the world's first ever alcohol-free training program. And she started with beer. Um, so she did that. And then when we came back together in 2023, I said, okay, now we're starting cannabis beverage certification. And she's like, Oh, I mean, just got done doing beer. It's like, okay, cool. And uh here, here you go. This is what we're doing. This is like kind of like a shaker by the shoulders. This thing needs to happen and it needs to happen now. I feel like I kind of drug her by her feet because I just was like, oh my gosh, this has to happen. And um, and so what aficionados is is it started with beer, then we added cannabis beverage certification. Now there is an alcohol-free wine vertical. And soon this month, we'll be releasing the Spirits vertical. So there is actually training in all four verticals. Cannabis beverage certification is kind of its own little niche because it is so unbelievably unique, but it does fit in because it's still alcohol-free. And it's a two-hour course designed because when I came into THC, I studied my ass off and I spent way too much time going down unnecessary rabbit holes, pulling up information that I did not need to know to sell these drinks. And what we've done is consolidated this information into a two-hour course of what you need to know to ensure that people are getting what they need to know, but not overextending themselves and wasting time and doing too much for irrelevant topics. And we also compare alcohol versus cannabis so that you know what one does versus another, different THD consumption methods. Because if you're selling beverages, you need to know how inhalables and gummies also process. And because it's part of the conversation. We talk about agronomy and history, safe selling, um, the biology. It's, it's, it's pretty, it's pretty cool. And it's not, it's not just like a serve safe, you know, or safe serve situation. It's really about ensuring that people feel a level of knowledge that they can go out and confidently talk about these drinks. Because if they don't feel confident, they won't talk about them. And if they don't talk about them, they don't sell them. And upper management and leadership don't realize how much revenue they're missing out on because they have a veteran of this distributor that's been there for 30 years, never saw themselves selling cannabis in their lifetime, and they're too afraid to admit that they don't know what they're talking about. So they just don't talk about it at all. And you're losing market share to your competitors that have the education.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Uh when I was at the in the distributor level, like 2010 to 2017, we had a diverse sales team. I had like 20, 20 some sales reps like spread out across a big region. And it was all it was old guys that were like the old Milwaukee distributor guys, all the way to the new guys that just graduated college. And the amount of times, even up until the end when I was there, we would just we were veering them off of Indiana pale ales and all kinds of like they were the the stuff that would go through, and then we introduced the iPads, and then we lost the old guys to the iPads, and oh god. Well but one of the things that that I I I agree with you and I want to reiterate it is is education is so important for the confidence. And if the confidence isn't there, you're right. Not only are they not going to talk about it, they're probably gonna screw up the other presentations because they're gonna know they should be talking about it. They don't know how to talk about it, and in that moment, while you're standing in front of the buyer, the panic sets in, your brain's distracted, and then you're not doing the full print is the full pitch of the full portfolio. And I think that that's it is an R there is an immediate ROI to education. And and especially at a two-hour course and and some hours leading up to it. And um, I did what was it 2018? I think I did a in Pittsburgh, I did like a two-day thing with a company called Hemp Staff. I don't even know if they're still around anymore. And um, it was funny, like they gave you like this card when you walked out, it's like a paper piece of card. And I was like, man, I spent all this money in two days, and I got this card, you know, and it didn't mean anything because hemp wasn't a thing then. But that's where I was. I knew what was going on because I'm a Delta guy, love the Delta, and I already at 2017-2018 was watching alcohol go, and I was in the distributor world, and I immediately was like, I gotta get out of this, and then immediately went from doing free mind as a side gig while working for a distributor to doing free mind full-time and bringing an adult beverage category into play. Now, same thing as you had said earlier, like in the beginning it was rough. Hemp brands were not like they are today. Like in a couple years back, they were lying, they were and there's not the people that exist today, they're all gone. You know, I haven't seen those people around that I had to fire in the beginning. But like I would they'd send me products and like a gummy, and I would take the gummy, like, because I gotta try everything that I sell. I take this gummy, and I have a high tolerance for cannabis. I yeah, I've been a smoker for long than I want to want to admit on camera, but it's one of those things that you take these gummies and this flour, and it would knock me onto the couch. And I would I would call these guys and I'd be like, that's not matching the COA. Like, you know, you're that is not a hundred milligram gummy or 50 milligram gummy. We're talking a thousand milligrams or something. And they're like, Oh, you don't know anything, but I'm like, no, I know my body. And I said, I know what what everything needs to be. And I it relieves me so much to for you and I to be able to stand in front and go to go to hill climbs in in in DC and go to our state governments because I feel proud about the portfolio that I have, and I feel proud about the the people that are in the industry now. Yeah. There are a lot of bad actors, not a lot, let me rephrase that. There are some bad actors, but the majority of this industry is real people that are trying to live out their dream and give something good to other people as well.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

Yeah, I totally agree. And I I also want to go back to a few things that you said in terms of the guys that just won't talk about the product or they'll ruin it, right? I have a saying that, you know, because for people that sold alcohol their whole life, they know what it's like to roll out when ciders were big and then seltzers were big, and then it was RTDs. And and so people would say, like, oh, this is the new RTD. No, it's not. No, it's not. It is not, it is not even an alcohol product. And so I say it's not apples and oranges, it's apples and umbrellas. Like you can't use the same math. And so people need to know the difference. Also, in terms of price, it is a very affordable price. And and we say it because of these great, beautiful, luscious margins and THC beverages, it the course pays for itself once you sell five to seven cases, which honestly is easily within the first week, if not the first day. But you mentioned the card. And I did want to point out that in Cicerone style and fashion, we have made lapel pens and they say cannabis beverage certified. And this allows people to put this on their bag or their or their lapel and and show people that, you know, and you have to pass a test. You have to pass a test, and you don't get this sucker unless you've passed, and then you know, you it comes mailed to you, and that's kind of your badge of honor to say, look, I did this. And it's we have a professional exam writer that wrote the course, and it's all up and up. Um, and so I I did want to kind of you had mentioned those few things, and so I wanted to reiterate that. But to your point, when I was in, you know, Washington, just I think a few weeks before you doing a hill climb, it this was a course that we were telling all the legislators like education does exist. A, we want you to be a part of it too, but we're doing the right things. We have education, we have testing, we have COAs, we have brand partners that are abiding by the standards. Please don't use you know these kind of propaganda tactics to assume that that we're all like that. I the majority of us are well-intentioned professionals that are also moms and dads and want those products off the market just as much as everybody else in the United States.

SPEAKER_00 40:45

On my uh, I went a little off script on on my hill climb where I had photos being from the industry. I wanted to pull out the hypocrisy and defend defend both industries at the same time. So I had the new Welch's grape juice hard Welches can. And I I did a side by side and I was like, so what's the difference in these? And they're like, nothing. And I'm like, well, one's alcohol and one's for your kid. And then I went to Sonny D. Then I went to the other, and then I went through line by line where I was like, you guys are talking about a corner guy. I'm not downplaying the gummies and all the Skittles and all that stuff. I'm not downplaying it, but at the same time, I won't stand by and allow you to say it's the only place that's chasing children.

SPEAKER_03 41:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

Because let's be honest, these are publicly traded companies that are doing the same thing. And if you want to say that that's the case, then let's be honest about it and let's let's call reform and regulation across the adult beverage industry. Because honestly, if you're gonna talk about 16 gas stations across like a state that might carry those things, because that's what it really is, it's not a scaled chain rollout of synthetics and doses. And if you want to do that, then let's look the other way. Because guess what? That kid might be going into that gas station, but that kid definitely is walking into the liquor store with his mom.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

And like so that's where, or dad or whoever. And I I think that that's where I'm not downing the industry and not saying alcohol is deceitful, but let's hold a let's hold a balance line to the adult beverage category and say nobody should be doing that. Whether you're a winery, a distillery, or a brewery, or a hemp beverage, or a functional beverage, or a non-alcoholic, I'm not alcoholic, does what it does, but it's one of those things where I that's where we make the mistake of segmenting these things too much in every single situation when really it needs to be category reform as far as that goes.

SPEAKER_02 42:27

Oh, absolutely. It's yeah, the the hypocrisy in in general, if we were to pull out all of the the arguments, it would be it would be obnoxious. But it and it's not even so much that we're saying don't do it, alcohol. Right. It's just saying look at what we've already established, and you've allowed this because a three-tier system exists, and you trust that these products are going to be in a place ideally that kids won't have access to them. So if you're so trusting of this system that allows this, put us in the same system.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

That's that, and that's what it comes down to is that's what they that's that's I appreciate what you just said because that's what they realize. They're like, oh, and I'm like, that's what we're trying to say.

SPEAKER_02 43:13

That's what we're trying to say. Yeah, we we want regulation, we we want restraints, and that system already exists that requires licensing and and you know, uh chain of custody to, you know, just dependent. And it's like we're just asking to go get roped in with them. So it that almost becomes the evidence, not like I'm gonna take my ball and take it home and and and you should you should ban these products. It's like, no, look at what you've done to provide a safety blanket that allows these products to be okay. We just want to go hop in with them. And we are willing to do that with the same with the same requirements and same providers that that already have it down. We don't need to go reinvent the wheel. This already exists.

SPEAKER_00 44:03

Yeah, and I appreciate the way you just said it because that's exactly that's the lens I was trying to get at, but you said it much better. It's not, I don't think anybody's being deceitful. I just think it's like if it yeah, if it's okay there, then make it okay everywhere. You know, it's so uh when when we talk about these things, I also I do want to iterate what something you said too is that it's not a batch of alcohol. We both we both grew up in this business, and we we are we will be successful in the future in hemp because of our experience in the alcohol industry. And that's not to negate it, it's to it's to actually to reinforce that it is a universal transparency that that is in alignment with each other.

SPEAKER_03 44:38

Well, absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

Well um, talk about we'll give uh let's give try on a little plug. Talk about uh let's give Melissa a little plug there. Talk about some distributors and some businesses that are participating with you at scale. We're not talking about one off-consumer bartender that wants to increase their job. Like there's real businesses at scale that are working with you.

SPEAKER_02 44:56

Yes, yes. I will happily plug Melissa in try-on. Um and I've got some others as well. So I would like to acknowledge plug them all, plug them all. Yeah, well, and and I mean Opeachy was uh, they are a wine distributor out of um primarily New Jersey, but also Rhode Island. And then we've got Badger wholesalers in Wisconsin, a very, a very predominant and prestigious wholesaler in in that state. And um and they they saw the value immediately and and jumped on board. And to your point, we're not talking like an one or two or 15 exams. We're talking about putting their entire sales force through. So in some cases, two, three, you know, team members that that went through the course and not just took it, but had validation and verification on the back end. So our program is in a platform called Seed Talent. They're an LMS provider that got their start in cannabis and and was on the ground with bud tenders and things of that nature. So it was very easy for them to roll into the beverage space. And it allows these guys like Tryon and and Badger and Opeachi to go in and actually see did did Bob pass? What did he get? And they they verify it and they do it. And the commitment that we've seen from these wholesalers and others and brand partners and retailers have have been a symbol that they are taking the category seriously and that they are wanting to give it the respect that that alcohol is used to getting. So it's back to the conversation we were just having that this isn't just something that's gonna be fly in and fly out. It's it's got staying power, it needs support, it needs understanding, and and those distributors and and again, we have many other people and and brand partners, climbing kites has been absolutely amazing. That have like climbing kites, they put every single salesperson through our course. Like they get hired, they go through the course. And and so they've put a big commitment behind education, not just with us, but even if you go to their own site. Um, but yeah, it's it's and that's what we want legislators to see. That's what we want retailers to see. We want them to see a group of professionals that are taking things seriously, that are speaking with with confidence and education backing their words. So yeah, so again, I I'm just I cre helped create this course because I knew it needed to exist. And so to see those, you know, partnerships emerge because they also saw the value. I just want to go out and like hug everybody. Yes, yes, you get it. You know, you you're prioritizing this because at the end of the day, it's that consumer. And I always talked when we were creating the content, I talked about Dylan on aisle seven, because what I want is I want this content and this information to get to Dylan on aisle seven so that when a soccer mom in Atlanta, Georgia is coming home from her son's you know, soccer game and she stops in a package store or whatever, and she walks down an aisle and she doesn't know anything about these drinks, but one of her girlfriends mentioned it and she runs into Dylan on aisle seven, and her whole experience is is is on him. And we need Dylan on aisle seven to know what the hell he's talking about to ensure that she has a safe experience so that she can tell her friends, and I mean, A, we want her to be safe regardless, but if somebody has a bad experience, they're just not coming back. But if she has a good one, then she's gonna become a repeat shopper, she's gonna tell her friends she's bringing these to book club, she's bringing them to soccer games, and then overnight you have a moment where what became one person becomes a thousand. And if she doesn't have a good first experience, it's done. Yeah, yeah. It it's gonna go negative. And and who knows that that ripple effect that she would have had, who knows if and when those people will ever have that experience. And personally, for me, it's kind of a white claw moment because I I'm sure you can tell I'm a very passionate, I'm like, I get very excited about things, and so I tell everybody. And I had gone to a Kroger, I had tried white claw, and this was before it blew up. And I tried a sample, I bought some because I was obsessed with it, because I drank a lot of seltzer water and I came back and I converted half of my neighborhood to like white claw drinkers, and then slowly, so I helped grow that brand because I single-handedly was out promoting it just because I liked it. And so if you can get those advocates on board with a good experience, then that speeds up the whole trajectory of the category versus a bad experience. To your point, it's going to deter people from ever even picking it up and never having and creating ripple effects of their own. So, yeah, I'm very Dylan on Ile 7. There's a lot writing on you.

SPEAKER_00 50:09

No, I love I love Dylan and Ile 7. We all have like that target consumer that we use for these stories. Like one time I said to a couple weeks ago, a guy was like, Well, how do you know what to do? And this and that. And I'm like, it was a it was an industry veteran. And I said, You remember, like, I mean, you were you were Boston Beer? I said, You remember the beer journey? Like, we all had those graphics in the in the 2010 to 2017 where it was like, start him with you know, Boston lager, then he goes to this, and then he gets to the IPA, then he's at the cherry wheat, then he's at this. And like, that's the that's the same journey that needs like there's no difference because you don't jump in and drink a triple IPA when you drank Miller Light your whole life. Like, and that's the dumbest thing ever. And that'd be the same as somebody walking in and be like, I'll take a 50 milligram can to the face and then walk away and be like, that was a horrible experience. No shit. Like, it's the equivalent of that triple IPA or or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 50:54

Yeah, and when you say that, I have to say, really quick though, the difference is that the triple IPA is not going to taste good for that person. And and this is the tricky part for the THC is that 50 milligram drink that they pick up is gonna taste like peaches and strawberries, and they're gonna love it and they're gonna drink the hell out of it. And then an hour later or 30 minutes later, their ass is gonna be on the floor. But at least with alcohol, with some of these like very advanced flavors or scotches or bourbons or triple IPAs, that drinker's not gonna like it and they're gonna stop drinking it. They're not gonna accidentally drink the whole thing, and that's a very big component that we have to point out with THC is that it's gonna taste great and you're gonna drink it all, and then you're gonna have the problem. So sorry to interrupt, but I have to I have to make that point.

SPEAKER_00 51:47

No, and that's a that's a really good point because I'll be really honest with you. I never thought about that feature where it was like I was talking about the experience afterwards when I tell that story, but now I'm gonna add that a piece in as well because it is deceiving. Uh, and compliments to everybody that's making have beverages is yeah, you don't have that burning alcohol or that extreme bitterness from the hops and and the enamel burning the enamel off your teeth. Like there's no other experience there. So you're right. I never I did not think about that. So your point is well taken there. Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 52:13

Thank you very much. Well, and I like I should have made a video about that. So I'll have to use it.

SPEAKER_00 52:18

We'll take the clip evening this clip.

SPEAKER_02 52:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:21

So we'll we'll kind of close out with uh well, we're gonna bring uh we're gonna do some round tables and stuff like that in the next few months as well. We'll bring a couple different guests on and we'll do like a very targeted topic and kind of dive in for like a 30-minute like kind of lightning rounds and all kinds of stuff. So I'll keep you posted on those if any of them fit in your schedule. I'd love to have you back in. And also, don't ever apologize for your passion. Also, I want to say that don't ever apologize for your passion. Yeah, because that's the only thing that keeps us entrepreneurs running, especially those of us that don't have massive teams. It's the passion every morning that's gonna get your ass out of bed and it's gonna get you moving. So the second you start letting that affect your confidence, you're not gonna get up in the morning as well. I'm telling you that the hard way is I spent years in different depression and different things like that. And it was because of that, because I forgot my passion. I wasn't living my passion and I was inhibiting it because my feelings are too big sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 53:10

Yeah, yeah, I I hear you. I hear you. And it's it's it's intention. I think to your point, it that's become my new phrase. And I have a little post-it right here that's focus on intention. Um, it's focus on intention, not outcome. Because it because it used to say results, because if you are focused on the outcome or the results, then you are not doing it with the right intention. And so I think passion, intention role like hand go hand in hand.

SPEAKER_01 53:40

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:40

It's when you're doing it for the right reasons because you know you feel convicted to do it.

SPEAKER_00 53:46

Exactly. It's that conviction that's the drive for sure. Yeah. So let's in closing, uh, where everybody can find you online, social media, uh, YouTube, reiterate everything to them as well, LinkedIn and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 53:58

Yeah, I feel like I've got a ton of a ton of so on YouTube, it's the enlightened buzz. Um I also have another channel for speaking and coaching on YouTube called um at the Leagall. And I have legal.com. Again, that's more in like the mindset world. And then uh cannabis beverage certification is at cannabcertification.com. And then we also have aficionados if you're interested in the the beer, the wine, or the spirits verticals as well.

SPEAKER_00 54:29

So awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on, but also I want to I want to publicly say like thank you for having the courage to come on because I don't have any scripts, I don't have any agenda, there are no questions on a monitor for me, nobody's in my earpiece telling me what to say. This is a raw and organic conversation, and I appreciate the passion, I appreciate the drive that you have, and I also appreciate the vision. And and you are not afraid of anything. And I've gotten to know you uh inadvertently through conference calls and hearing about you and things like that. So I'm really I was looking forward to sitting down for it for this hour and talking to you and having just the courage is just what it comes down to is the courage you have because there's a lot of people that don't want to come on the show because there's no prep, there's no questions, and there's no script. And that makes people uncomfortable. So I need to always publicly acknowledge my guests when they come on. And I'll close out with reminding everybody the same thing that while this is a show about adult beverages, this is more of a show about connecting with strangers. And this world is a beautifully destructive place. And while you're walking down the street, look a stranger in the eye, put your phone in your pocket when you're at the gas station filling up that cup of coffee, look at the person next to you and ask them how they're doing and pause and actually ask them and engage because this is a lonely place, and we all don't know what's going on in other people's lives. And a two-minute conversation at a gas station that has a positive result could change somebody's life in a week, in a month, or whatever. And you never know, and it doesn't cost you shit. So, what I tell everybody is here's the vulgar part stop being a piece of shit out there. It's free to be good. All right, put good things out there, and good things will come back to you and build a community around what you're passionate about. So, Lee, thank you so much. And I'm looking forward to continuing our our battles together over the next few weeks and months as we uh as we continue to fight this fight. And I'm I'm 100% all in on this. I have no, I have no uh no room to accept anything different than some sort of a monumental success as far as us being able to thrive and survive. So I don't think it's gonna look the way we want it to, but I think it will exist. And I want everybody to take the negativity out of this and continue to push forward over the next few months as far as the hemp industry is concerned.

SPEAKER_02 56:31

Yes, Nate, thank you so much for having me. Just to reiterate to your listeners and viewers, there there was zero screen.

SPEAKER_00 56:38

It used to be because I was lazy, now it's a part-term of improvement.

SPEAKER_02 56:42

Like when I like when I got on, it was it said it was the recording was already in progress. I mean, it was live from the moment I hit join. So if anybody needs to know that, there was, I think I had talked to you maybe for 30 minutes one day, and that I don't even remember when that was. Just if anybody needs the the the backing of that, it any confirmation that is very true. Yes, this was a wonderful conversation, and I really appreciate you having me. And it's been fun to to see where we're aligned and and thank you for your encouragement and your support. And um, again, right back at you. I I think it's great to see what you have done and what you're building and and the strength that you're putting out there for other people to feel safe doing the same thing.

SPEAKER_00 57:27

That's the biggest part. And everybody, every brewery and distillery and uh distributor in Pennsylvania, get your ass behind House Bill 2309 so you can work with her and get your team educated in the next few months when we get that thing going. So I do have to start reminding myself that we need to start promoting that on this show as well, is for Pennsylvania, as well as calling your congressman and your senator on a federal level and tell them that you want your THC, you want to have beverages, and you want to support the founders that are on the show and on Lee's show because that's what this is about. This is about real families and real people that are trying to live their dreams and put something positive out in the world. So thank you so much, and you have a good rest of your day, Lee. I appreciate it. Yeah, you too.

SPEAKER_03 58:06

Thanks, Dave.

SPEAKER_00 58:08

Take care.

SPEAKER_03 58:08

Ciao.